At
the beginning of the season, Marxman, TAL’s London organiser along with
our editor Talman met up with the now ex-Labour “maverick” MP, George
Galloway at a curry house in north London to ponder all the big questions
of politics; the war in Iraq, the prospects for peace in Ireland,
sectarianism in Scotland and, of course, the future of Celtic FC.
The
Milky Bars (or at least the curries!) were on George.
In
relation to the war in Iraq George Galloway was absolutely convinced of
the correctness of his political stance against the US/British invasion
and subsequent occupation of the country.
“Everything
the anti-war movement predicted has come true. We said that there were no
Weapons of Mass Destruction and there aren’t. We said that Iraq was not
a threat or danger to anyone else, either in the West or even to its Arab
neighbours, and it wasn’t. Let’s face it, it couldn’t even defend
it’s own capital city for more than a couple of days.”
During
the course of the interview Galloway, who has an insight into Iraqi
politics that few other politicians on these islands possess, ominously
predicted the large-scale resistance to the western military occupation
that has become all too real in recent days and weeks. He was also
scathing of the reasons given by Bush and Blair for the war, stating as
the real reason for the conflict the quest to plunder the rich oil fields
of Iraq by multinational corporations allied to the determination of the
US political/military establishment to create another bridgehead of
political control in the region outside of their client state, Israel.
“
We said that the war would increase rather than decrease Terrorism in the
world and it has. We predicted that the level of hatred towards Britain
and the USA would increase and it most certainly has. You only have to
look at the British Foreign Office’s own website to see that the number
of countries now considered to be dangerous for its nationals to travel to
has greatly increased as a result of the war.
“And
the real reasons for the war were apparent almost immediately as American
companies lined up to receive the contracts that would allow them to strip
the country of its wealth. All the prime contracts have been sliced up and
handed out to the corporate friends of the Bush regime, including among
them the Vectra Corporation whose day job incidentally is the
privatisation of London Underground.”
He
is also pessimistic about the prospects now for an early withdrawal of
troops from Iraq given the massive damage that has been done to the
infrastructure of the country by the invading forces.
“This
is Vietnam all over again. There is going to be no easy way out for them
now. They are seriously considering privately the prospect of an
occupation force that could be in Iraq for as long as 5years, 10years or
maybe even longer.”
We
decided to tackle George about the continual criticisms of him in the
media for his alleged contacts with the Saddam Hussein regime. Did he
think that it was justified for him to have travelled to Iraq and met the
dictator in the past?
“I
met Saddam Hussein twice. That’s exactly the same number of times that
Donald Rumsfeld met him. The difference is that Rumsfeld was meeting him
on behalf of the US Government to sell him guns whereas I was there to try
to persuade him to destroy guns.
“Neither
do I buy the idea that just because I met Saddam it somehow means that I
supported his regime, but it sometimes amazes me that people are taken in
by the tabloid attacks on me. I’ve even had a wee bit of abuse at Celtic
Park. I was on my way into the ground for a match and one guy shouted at
me, ‘There’s the Tripoli Shamrock!’
A bit of a lapse in geography there. I’ve also been accused of
being ‘Gaddaffi’s Friend’ even though I’ve never been to Libya and
I’ve never actually met the Colonel!”
The
MP for Hillhead is nothing if not philosophical about the tabloids’ view
of him. A recent issue of The Sun newspaper ran a headline accusing him of
being a “Traitor” and demanding that he be tried for treason.
“Funnily
enough, the first time The Sun ran a “Traitor” headline against me was
in 1990 when I marched in Dublin alongside Gerry Adams. Their line then
was that no-one should be meeting or speaking with Adams.
“What’s
better, talking to people in order to reach an agreement and avoid war or
having a war where thousands of people get killed?
“If
the British government had met the Irish Republican Movement earlier and
dealt with the political demands of the nationalist community we may have
avoided years of war and violence and many people who are not with us
today might still be alive.
“And
exactly the same is true of Iraq.”
George
Galloway has for many years been a supporter of the cause of Palestine.
His solidarity with the Palestinian people goes right back to his early
political career in Dundee. It’s an issue that is familiar to TAL
readers and supporters and despite the years that have passed and what
appears at times to be an almost insoluble political situation he remains
passionately committed to the rights of the Palestinians.
“A
gratifying development in more recent years for me has been the
realisation among many Celtic supporters of the importance of the
Palestinian issue; how it’s not something that is foreign to them; that
the Palestinians are fighting against the same forces that have so
destroyed and stultified Ireland and the Irish people. Forces that have
driven the Irish to the four corners of the world, just as the
Palestinians have been driven to the four corners of the world.
“I
am so happy when I see Palestinian flags flying among the crowd at Celtic
Park. I feel a particular satisfaction about that because I have been so
involved with that issue going back to the early 1970’s.”
As
one of the few MP’s who has consistently campaigned for British
disengagement from Ireland he also derives some personal as well as
political satisfaction from the current political process that has pushed
republicans to the fore in their efforts for a political solution to the
conflict.
“It
generally takes a long time to be vindicated in politics especially when
you’ve taken a stand that is widely reviled at the time you first argue
for it. In the case of Ireland, when I was being roundly condemned as a
traitor for speaking with Gerry Adams in public, it turns out that all the
time Mrs Thatcher and her representatives were speaking to him in private!
It just goes to show the total hypocrisy of the British state in this
regard.
“I’ve
always believed that Britain should disengage from Ireland. For someone
from my own background, as the grandson of Irish immigrants, it really
isn’t possible for me to have taken any other view. Britain doesn’t
have an Irish problem - Ireland has a British problem.”
It
won’t surprise TAL readers to hear that due to his forthright views on
Ireland Galloway has been a target of hate for loyalists in Scotland. Even
the baptism of his grandson Sean managed to create controversy when it was
publicised that the baby’s christening was the first Catholic baptism
ceremony to be performed in the House of Commons since the days of Guy
Fawkes. Despite the threats and abuse he has received over the years, he
remains committed to peace in Ireland and to resolving sectarian conflict
in Scotland. He imparts some advice to loyalists in the 6 Counties about
the choices that they face.
“I
concur with the advice given to them by Tim Pat Coogan, that they should
‘cut a deal’ before it’s too late. Essentially that was the
conclusion drawn by the whites in South Africa. Unfortunately it’s not a
position that has been adopted by the Israeli settlers and you can see the
results.
“In the same way that the South African solution enshrined the rights of minorities, even the rights of the formerly dominant white minority, so too must any arrangement reached in Ireland preserve the rights and interests of the two traditions. The interests of all of the people of the island must be guaranteed.
“It
would be just as intolerable for the nationalist majority in Ireland as a
whole to treat the unionist minority badly as was the reverse in the
Northern Ireland statelet for so many decades.
“I’d
say to the loyalist population that they should stop fooling themselves
that Britain has any interest in maintaining their supremacy. What you
share in common with the rest of the people in Ireland far outweighs the
things that you don’t have in common.
No-one
wants to take away your churches or your orange halls. You can live as you
want to, but you must also accept that other Irish people are your equal
and they have a right to elect a government of their choice and as long as
that government is one that respects your human rights as a community and
as individuals. That is the best option available to unionists as a
community because the British fell out of love with Ian Paisley & Co a
long time ago.”
We asked George about his perceptions of “sectarianism” in Scotland and what he thinks of the Scottish Parliament’s proposals regarding the banning of marches that are deemed to be sectarian.
“I
don’t want to see any marches banned. Where possible we should seek to
accommodate all views within communities. Banning marches is not the way
to address views that you disagree with or object to. Obviously a slightly
different approach has to be taken if a march is proposed to go through an
area with the specific aim of provoking trouble – as is the case in
areas of the 6 Counties – but even then they are sometimes allowed with
conditions placed upon them.
“You
cannot equate republican marches with those of the orange order. There is
certainly a difference between republican politics and religion. Michael
Davitt was Protestant; Wolfe Tone was Protestant. You do not have to be a
Roman Catholic to be an Irish republican. Republicanism is not a religion
it is a political tenet, one that is shared by a very large number of
people. Of course it’s not sectarian to be a republican – it’s the
opposite of sectarianism.”
Finally we got down to the issue of football and despite our suspicions that George was in fact a Dundee United sympathiser (he has a soft spot for ‘the Arabs’ from his time in Dundee) he professes a life long affection for The Bhoys. Not surprisingly, as a Celtic supporter, he is as passionate about how our club is run as he is about how the country should be governed.
“I
had a disagreement with Fergus McCann some years ago when he came down to
London to address our Westminster branch Celtic Supporters Club. I
challenged him about his description of the fans as customers. I said that
‘customers’ can choose to change brands if they are dissatisfied with
the product but as supporters of our club it’s impossible for us to make
that kind of consumerist approach. As Celtic supporters we can’t change
to another brand because WE are the club and WE support them through good,
bad or indifferent times.
“It’s
a cultural thing that means everything to so many people. It’s our
lives, so please don’t call us ‘customers’ because it’s an insult.
We’re not buying chocolate biscuits – this is Celtic we’re talking
about.
“As I said to McCann at the time, ‘This club and its supporters were here long before you and they’ll be here long after you.’ “
George Galloway said a lot more about his ideals for the club and those that he thought would be in the best position to take it forward. He cited his friend Brian Dempsey, as being “Celtic through and through” and expressed disappointment that there is still no place for Dempsey in the structure of the club. He also expressed agreement with TAL’s position of supporters having a greater say in the running of the club.
“I
strongly support greater involvement of supporters at every level of the
club. That is ultimately how the club should be run. We need a genuine
coalition of Celtic people; the rich ones who can provide the necessary
finance and the ordinary Celtic supporters who, come rain or shine,
through thick and thin, remain the backbone of the club.”
Love him or loathe him, George Galloway remains a figure of political controversy, but he is also firmly committed to the issues in which he believes. His views on Ireland and Palestine may be more popular nowadays but it wasn’t always so. He has recently helped to establish a new electoral organisation called the Respect Unity Coalition. Our thanks to him for agreeing to be interviewed - and for paying for the curries when the bill came around!
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